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([personal profile] pyrephox Mar. 4th, 2004 07:05 pm)
Since starting my studies in psychology, one of the things that has continually fascinated me is the human concepts of self. I've started thinking about in more mechanical terms since I started playing In Nomine, if only because selflessness vs. selfishness is one of the primary themes, and selflessness is simply so /rare/ in the average human being. After thinking about it for a while, I've formed a theory that what we call 'selfishness' can be broadly split into three categories.



Self-centeredness: Operational definition--The state of evaluating things based on your own perspective and experiences. This is the default state of humanity.../everyone/ is self-centered to various degrees. We couldn't get through life if we weren't. Thus, it is a neutral attribute. However, it's also a problematic neutrality, since it is the cause of many of the ways that good people can be stuck in bitter disputes. Is it a biblical quote that says that we see life not through a window, but as through a mirror? However it goes, it's true. Thus, what someone else sees as an innocent remark can be hurtful, and one person's compliment can be another person's sarcastic remark.

Self-awareness: Operational definition--The state of knowing your own capabilities, needs, and abilities, and enforcing them. This is, in my opinion, the 'good' kind of selfishness. It's the abilitiy to recognize that taking on that new project will make it impossible for you to do any of your tasks-in-progress to your best ability, or knowing (and mentioning) that you'd prefer to take in a musical rather than a ballgame tonight, but could be persuaded to go to the /next/ ballgame. It's knowing what /you/ are willing to do (or not do), for your own happiness. It's best combined with compassion and empathy.

Selfishness: Operational definition--The state of feeling entitled to having your own needs fufilled by others, regardless of the cost to them, or their own needs. This is the 'bad' kind of selfishness. It's not about what you're willing to do to achieve your goals, but what you believe other people should be doing to /make/ you happy. It's not just obliviousness to other people's wants and needs, it's /callousness/. Whether it manifests as aggressive abuse or passive aggressive guilt trips, it's still rooted in the same idea: that the selfish person's needs/wants/whims should trump everyone else's, and that it's okay to throw a fit if they don't.

In my possibly pessimistic opinion, everyone contains all three of these things, to differing degrees. It's better, I think, to have more self-awareness than selfishness, but they're both present in the vast majority of people, and are healthy to some extent. The problem comes in when self-centeredness and selfishness are present to a great degree, without the moderating influence of self-awareness, or other virtues such as empathy, compassion, or barring all else, a good enough ability at acting to disguise it.

From: [identity profile] maladaptive.livejournal.com


The thing is, it is impossible NOT to be selfish even at the unconscious level. You will always, always measure how something benefits you. Even the things that don't benefit you, you think about it in relation to yourself. You have to. I'm not even sure an angel could accomplish true altruism, unless their psychology is so alien it blows the mind.

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com


Indeed. :)

And for what it's worth, IN Angels are a lot simpler than humans, psychologically speaking. I'm not even sure that they /have/ subconscious presences, in my conception of them.

But yes, in the real world, /everyone/ is selfish (in all three categories) to some degree.

From: [identity profile] maladaptive.livejournal.com


I really need to get my hands on a book and play the game.

People hate me when I point out that there is no such thing as a selfless act. No one's been able to topple the stance. Mwahaha!

Anyway, I liked the post. Didn't say before ^^

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com


*grins and hugs*

I'm glad you liked. *cough* I figured what else is an LJ for, if not the occassional pretentious ramble about life, the universe, and everything?

From: [identity profile] maladaptive.livejournal.com


LOL. Well, you made the Douglas Adams reference. I couldn't help myself.

Is that a Futurama ref in your username?

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com


Alas, no. I never watched Futurama. It's inspired by Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age (or: The Young Ladies' Illustrated Primer)", a science fiction novel. In it, a bit character named Phryephox is tortured to death over two pages for no real reason. When I first got onto the Internet proper, I was on AOL, and finding a screen name for AOL is a real pain in the ass, so I finally ended up choosing Phyrephox without the first 'h'.

From: [identity profile] maladaptive.livejournal.com


I meant "follow the bouncing brain"... but that's interesting! I thought it was "pyre fox" with an interesting spelling. ^^;;;

Neat info!

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com


Indeed! I am all for enlightened self-interest...being /too/ self-sacrificing is just as damaging to a person (and the people around them) as being too selfish. You gotta know when to say 'no', sometimes.
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Default)

From: [personal profile] archangelbeth


Actually, the definition of enlightened self-interest I was thinking of was the one where you do something good because you know it will come 'round to you again. I.e., unofficial Lilim favors, or "I do something good for you because I know it will be good for me, in good-will if nothing else."

I.e., you're doing it all for yourself (ooo, selfish!), but you know that it's going to benefit others more immediately. Parents sacrificing for their children might count, since on the genetic level they're advancing their genes...

It can get very twisty that way.

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com


It can, indeed. If I were trying to fit enlightened self-interest in, it'd probably go under self-centeredness, but it really deserves its own category, along with most of the other 'helping' behaviors. It seems like the prompting mechanisms behind a lot of those behaviors are slightly different (how many times is 'enlightened self-interest' used as a rationalization for an act that was actually born out of compassion, or empathy, or deference to authority, for example?), than what I was rambling about.

From: [identity profile] cpip.livejournal.com

Some questions on the theory.


Is there, then, some form of psychological evolution or growth (ie. children begin with extensive selfishness, and from there grow to develop self-centeredness and self-awareness)?

Are the three independent of each other, or do they affect each other? Ie. Would someone who demonstrated high levels of self-awareness also be less selfish?

Is an acting ability really an acceptable moderator?

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com

Re: Some questions on the theory.


I'm tempted to say so. Self-awareness requires a fair amount of cognitive sophistication and experience to get a handle on...to know what your limits and interests really are, and then to be able to understand how the world around you impact them. But I haven't tried to map out developmental cycles according to this model. :)

Hmm. I /think/ that they're likely to be mostly independent. I think just about everyone has a high level of self-centeredness, simply because we're human. And I think that you can have high levels of self-awareness and selfishness in the same person, or really low levels of one, and high levels of another.

No, but in my most cynical moments, I think it may be more common than the others.

From: [identity profile] cpip.livejournal.com

Re: Some questions on the theory.


I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with in that regard. I'm always curious as to developmental structures. How do people get to be the way they are?

Can you also have low levels of self-awareness AND selfishness?

Quite possibly. What about self-rationalization as a cover for selfishness?

From: [identity profile] pyrephox.livejournal.com

Re: Some questions on the theory.


It'd probably map most closely to development of ethical reasoning, I suppose.

I'd say yes. There are people out there who don't know how much they're capable of giving without harming themselves, and give all that they can (and more than they probably should) to others. :)

Oh, certainly. Self-rationalization is one of the great human coping techniques. :)

From: [identity profile] cpip.livejournal.com

Re: Some questions on the theory.


I was hearing my old Medical Ethics lectures in my head on that, I admit.

The lunatic martyr complex?

It's actually the one most interesting to me. Trying to comprehend motive, especially for acts of base selfishness and the like, has always interested me...
.

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